MSNBC "Hardball with Chris Matthews" - Transcript: Campaign Finance

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MATTHEWS: One possible legal remedy to dark money or unlimited contributions would be disclosure. Should we know if the Koch brothers are spending millions of dollars to bring down a particular Democratic candidate?

Well, Senator Angus King chaired today`s hearing. He is trying to shed some more light on dark money by introducing a bill to force the disclosure of contributions to candidates of over $1,000 within 48 hours.

Senator King, an independent from Maine, he caucuses with Democrats right now.

Senator, I love what you`re doing. Tell us about how you think this would be better for the country that when a big shot group of people like the Koch brothers or George Soros or anybody else comes roaming into a state race, a congressional district, dumping money all the money in the last month or two to turn that result around their way, how is this going to affect the voters?

SEN. ANGUS KING (I), MAINE: Well, what the real problem for me is that nobody knows who`s behind the money.

You can trace it back and you might say it`s the Koch brothers or George Soros or somebody else, but right now there are all these elaborate schemes to hide who`s doing the donations. You know, Chris, you can`t go to a Maine town meeting with a bag over your head.

If you`re going to stand up and make a speech, people want to know who`s saying it. And the Supreme Court in those recent opinions have struck down the limits on the premise that there`s disclosure. They have said, we don`t have to worry about these limits because the public is going to know who`s contributing the money. They can judge the message.

That`s not true today. We have got these -- all these funny structures, 501(c)(4)s, social welfare organizations, but really what they are is identity laundering. They`re covering up who`s actually giving the money. I think people ought to have a chance to know who it is that`s trying to influence their vote. Simple as that.

MATTHEWS: But when you hear arguments like in the "Wall Street Journal" editorial pages, you hear these arguments that this is just the progressives` way of hurting people with wealth who want to use their free speech -- in other words, they are against disclosure, and they say so, that somehow that it`s predatory.

KING: Well--

MATTHEWS: Why don`t people want their names known?

KING: Well, you know, you`re supposed to be -- you know, talk about the rough and tumble of democracy. Again, if you`re willing to try to take a shot at somebody, to talk about them, to put an ad on television to tell their voters why they are such bad people, why are you so shy about knowing who you are?

I just think it`s a fundamental part of this whole system. And, by the way, the Supreme Court does, too. They made it very clear. Antonin Scalia, very conservative judge, said, you know -- this is disclosure and taking the consequences of your own actions is part of democracy. It`s part of the rough and tumble marketplace of ideas.

MATTHEWS: OK.

KING: So this idea that, you know, you`re going to hurt the feelings of somebody who`s making a contribution, give me a break.

MATTHEWS: How are you going to get 60 votes?

KING: Well, you know, we`re talking to some Republicans.

Until a couple of years ago, Chris, disclosure was a nonpartisan issue. It was a bipartisan issue. The Republicans were for it, too. Here`s what`s going to happen. We released some data today that just came in yesterday.

In the past, it`s been all Republican money -- 80 percent, 90 percent of these nondisclosed groups were conservative. This year, interestingly, it`s now 60-40. In other words, it`s closing up. Once the Republicans see that this isn`t necessarily always going to be to their advantage, I think that`s when you`re going to see some political movement.

The truth is, it`s a threat to the whole system, Chris, and we shouldn`t be making these kinds of decisions based on who thinks it`s an advantage this year vs. next year.

MATTHEWS: OK. OK. Thank you so much, Senator Angus King of Maine.

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